In benchmarks WC scales very poorly compared to React. If you feel comfortable contributing, we'd love to have you work with us on the fixes as well. It wouldn’t make sense to provide an “onclick” style prop for custom events, but you can attach listeners with `addEventListener` like any other event. Fast Design S.r.l. Ant shipped 1MB CSS minified, last time i used it at work. FAST Frame is an early, experimental design system that our team is working on. Microsoft Fast Design. … What makes you say web components are slow or have an unstable API? I.e. I like their transparent implementation. I love seeing a wider adoption of webcomponents, but I have some complaints about this library, mainly because they're really pushing the whole, "lightweight and low memory" lines. When will this "dark mode" fad end?!? An application that communicates with elements running in the cloud has to be sensitive to the transient faults that can occur in this environment. Neither do they seem to work in desktop Nightly. You could either convert _everything_ to the latest and greatest thing, or you could write your design system with web components, and it'll work everywhere. I’m a proponent and I’m happy to discuss these things in public. > The arrow function bindings and directives used in templates allow the fast-element templating engine to intelligently react by only updating the parts of the DOM that actually change, with no need for a virtual DOM, VDOM diffing, or DOM reconciliation algorithms. so thanks for explaining. but hey it was my gateway drug into web development as a winforms guy. Web Components, as a standard, remain problematic. I'm guessing this already leads to collisions between different versions of the same element. Seems to just be click for a value, hope you don't need to make a small tweak. I don't actually know what shadow DOM is, but does this mean no Web Components work with SSR, or that some don't? ( - Bologna - ), Telefono, Sito, Orari e varie informazioni su Studio Tecnico F.d. We provide two design systems today. You have set up so many logical fallacies, talking about "so many developers", "bonus cookies", and some weird need to "prove" ourselves, that I don't even know where to begin unwrapping whatever complex you have. When you build re-usable web components, you have to think carefully about the best way to accomplish this. fast-foundation and fast-element are the main point of this. This just doesn't feel like something great, it just feels like another branded corporate way to structure code that there's dozens of examples of already, it's not an improvement just an alternative, if that makes sense. All of this is an internal implementation detail of a FAST component, allowing FAST to integrate with Web Components built in completely different ways or with different libraries. Things just aren’t going to work right. There are official Microsoft instances of Slack and Gitter as well and teams seem to be given a fair degree of freedom. Me too. I saw some comments below about how Microsoft was trying to consolidate and that FAST seems to add yet another option. The emphasis is on a lot of the little things in Bootstrap's documentation that doesn't either get copy/pasted or it gets copy and pasted and ignored/forgotten/left-to-bit-rot. Tailwindcss is getting quite big.i would dare to say mainstream even. Entirely due to React's choices. This lets them consume the awesomeness without writing JS. By continuing to browse this site, you agree to this use. I'll probably emulate a lot of them for the next webcomponent based design system I'm working on. 2. Design fast. I don't have to use their specific, custom HTML in order to leverage it? Polymer was probably the first, and currently there are Polymer's LitElement, Ionic's Stencil, Salesforce's Lightning, and many more. Any FAST element can render into the light DOM as well. What's the main advantage here?,,,,, I love Sciter and it is pretty amazing for what it does, but I still wouldn’t use it to share internal web component libraries within my own company, never mind some other 3rd party. As fast as you can, jot down several words or phrases on a whiteboard or piece of paper that embody the essence of your project. * You Can't Provide Callbacks for Custom Events - Maybe I misunderstand this but in my experience this is not true. No worries, we are able to break it down for everyone into really easy steps. Transform Data by Example, a Microsoft Garage project for Excel, Garage project Sketch 360 comes to Surface Duo, Microsoft Hackathon 2020 Grand Prize Winner: Customizable digital assistant, Get paid for your photos with Trove, a Microsoft Garage project, MIT students build Mosaic to explore art across cultures at Microsoft Garage, Zero Waste Certified: Sustainability at Microsoft Hackathon. Totally agree on slots. They have come far. Rather, just use a standard JS property. (I'm not a front end dev myself, but do enough full stack to think I know what is going on here.). > the presentation and default design is horrible. Fast Design S.r.l. So, let me give a brief explanation. Experienced Designers tend to do some best work when they are under time pressure. 4. Yep that’s why said it’s a gotcha. * Web Components Break Accessibility - Accessiblilty is difficult. Possibly the best commercial for Microsoft is how this site is. The do work in React. The other is Fluent UI Web Components. Lol, love your comment! So, we need to not only make an impression but also be as clear as possible. However, if you don't need to implement your own design system, you can use one that we build. Creating a shadowroot conditionally has nearly equivalent performance to no shadowroot at all, but always creating a shadowroot is about twice as slow. - strings as the only native serialization format, - messages are passed to children as attributes which are strings, - no way to take advantage of efficient tree algorithms (virtual DOM), just manipulate a giant string every tick like a caveman. I was equally confused by fast-divider. My main recommendations are to benchmark early and often. It's hard for them not to, since they're just elements. (Note, less code is less work, but caching and diffing DOM can also be less work...). Microsoft FastTrack Recognized Solution Architect - Dynamics 365 Learn more about FastTrack Recognized Solution Architects, an elite group of architects from our services partners, who have consistently led successful Dynamics 365 customer projects of complex scenarios. Passing objects should just be sent as a prop, but also, passing objects to child web components we've found is a bad habit. We are currently working with W3C on declarative shadow dom as well as declarative custom element definitions. With the list of properties captured, it then subscribes to changes in their values. rating distribution. The @microsoft/fast-element library is a lightweight means to easily build performant, memory-efficient, standards-compliant Web Components. Search for form-associated custom elements, for example. I’d encourage anyone who hasn’t explored custom elements, shadow DOM, et al recently to take another look. Switching to teams everyone’s face turned to mush which while it might save on aggregate network traffic, it greatly reduces the niceness of the conversation. save hide report. Looks very flexible but the presentation and default design is horrible. It has limited components. have a slot and nothing else? It’s not because the API is bad, it’s because the term “component” has become ubiquitous with framework components and that’s caused A lot of confusion. However, it has never been the long-term plan. Custom elements are just html tags and can be rendered by any server framework. This kind of information, and bits of your reply comment, should be part of the website. Otherwise there is a impedance mismatch between this and what most or used to. It’s still pretty new, but it’s coming. But what about people who don't use React? Even Data Science is helping teams go faster. We'd have to re-write everything to use this library specifically, and train our teams. And that’s the way it should be in the modern world of work. > My main fear that I developed over the years is we end up developing frameworks for frameworks instead of delivering tangible results. Tags fast ionic react stencil webcomponent webdev. All in all, I love that Microsoft is doing web components. That would normally be the end of the story. Let the ideas flow, good or bad. Fluent UI is the one the Office team is standardizing on. Our Hackathon logo design from last summer is a good example of something that normally takes awhile to finish (given the high number of places it would be leveraged, management approvals, etc). Not quite, Ionic Stencil is library to helps build webcomponents. * Why does Accordion/Anchor/Divider, etc. That said, as mentioned, we are working on declarative shadow dom, which will provide the W3C standard on which SSR and other WC capabilities will be built. For something more “batteries included,” see. `element.html =` is implemented as single update transaction, JS function call is significantly more expensive then HTML parsing of single element, etc. You can access popular apps and and services like Boomerang, Evernote, GIPHY, Gfycat, Microsoft Translator, MojiLaLa, PayPal, Trello, and more right from your inbox. I start to think that this is not interesting for, for example, Microsoft because the developer market will shrink and their developers, developers, developers mantra. A design system is a collection of components that fit a certain look-and-feel; it is not tied to the implementation so it can be implemented by React, Angular, or VueJS: My understanding is this is closer to something like Bootstrap but using Web Components (or material-ui if you want a react component set) than it is to React itself. It's like a while back I trained myself up on GWT because in my mind it was the future of reusability. Use the first thoughts that pop into your head. As for Fluent UI Web Components, Fluent UI is Microsoft's design language. attributeChangedCallback will only be called when the attribute changes. When the queue is processed, all updates run as a batch, updating precisely the aspects of the DOM that have changed. This is fundamentally React's problem. In fact, our design goal was to create the world’s coolest science fair — that’s where the idea of turning it into a fun party atmosphere came from. It's the only major framework to even have issues here. I really love watching companies adopt the Web Components standard, Apple's adoption of it for building Apple Music's web player got me interested in learning them. Attributes are strings. We’ll all get better as a result. I am not a very good front end developer, even though my. You can't use an Angular component in React because React defines a different model. I started coding BASIC in the late 80s and built websites before CSS and JS was a thing in addition to just coding stuff in whatever language took my fancy to solve whatever whimsical project I had that day, I had a particular affinity for optimising getpixel and putpixel routines in ASM when you could still directly address video memory. The work on Web Component standards, like the rest of the web, is ongoing. If we have to put it in every app and webpage in a non-standard way, then that suggests that dark mode itself is broken. 67% Upvoted. I found all the "That's FAST" paragraphs uninformative, and this much clearer (but I am not really a web developer). They're not different from built-in elements and don't need special treatment. Microsoft Fast Design. On a personal note, this method of intentionally designing more quickly at every turn has helped me deliver more finished pieces in the last year than ever before in my career. best. I think I learned something new and fundamental today, and the overall approach makes sense if you pick a single library to build your application but I can't see it having any realistic value if you're to try and jimmy it into existing products, in fact I can see that being an extremely expensive exercise and potentially adding a load of overheads to maintain and configure. This leads to huge fragmentation across the ecosystem and internally within large companies, and a waste of effort to reimplement components in each framework. Its really ugly, and there isnt a lot there. In case it makes any difference: I'm on Win10, Edge 84. I did come out pretty strong in my apprehension but I am serious in wanting to know specifically what the benefit of this is, and I don't really care whether I am making a fool of myself for asking questions lol. Log in. The components are mostly just a showcase. Whatever that ends up being, the essence needs to shine through clearly to anyone who sees your work for the first time. And here's a ASP.NET Community Standup session that goes through the FAST framework by one of the core developers: How much of this can you do yourself? And 2019 may be the year inclusive design goes mainstream. Events from inside the shadow dom are re-targeted, but you have complete control over whether they bubble or compose. First, the term "Web Components" is an umbrella term. Take shortcuts. Anything built with this design would be very hard to use. I also like to think the ignorant guy asking the ignorant questions (in this case me) can sometimes be valuable for others who aren't in the club. I remember when Bootstrap come up and suddenly we don't need a lot of graphic design time to build a web page. I'm not a very smart person, thanks again to you and everyone else jumping on my thread to take the time to explain :). There’s no magic here, just common sense — if you need to go faster, find the quickest route from A to B. Can't you just use an a tag? You’ll be surprised how well this works to encircle the essence and hone in on a few key aspects. It's more about I guess what context is this framework more applicable in? Which brings the question - Why do we invest (internally) and open source components? React passes all data to Custom Elements in the form of HTML attributes. They can be any type. [1] That it doesn't change the example on the web page seems like a giant oversight, or a rendering error on Safari. Because of function call., Blame it how it’s taught in schools I suppose, but Design as a whole has never really come to grips with just being done, letting go, and moving on. They really seem to love these things. That Slider's unusable on mobile. We provide two design systems today. Is that the popular consensus, or is that an odd way of looking at it? Apples and oranges. > Come on. I really like parts of web components, but... I’d also like to see a Chrome experiment where JSX and TS is baked into the browser to natively solve the “stringly-typed” problem the Web Components spec has. The fast-components package is a showcase of what this library is capable of. The other avenue is props (like ionic), but props don't show up in dom explorer, so you have to make the tradeoff. I guess you could even add Bootstrap on top of Fast. In previous releases of .NET Core, I’ve blogged about the significant performance improvements that found their way into the release. They're all compatible with each other and with frameworks because the libraries only manage the internals of the components, the externals are standard. FAST Frame is an early, experimental design system that our team is working on. It's cool, but we've been able to do the same for at least ten years at this point, and with the tools of our choice. INTRODUCING : FAST DESIGN. Sounds like they ship a framework with the browser and call it "standard". At least a while ago there was still some ceremony needed at least in React. A class-based way to attach event listeners in a standard interface (which is nice), 2. what we always had to do anyway (unless framework forces using JS to inject HTML at runtime). Consciously go faster than normal. With new books out on Design Sprints and Lean UX, the dozens of rapid prototyping tools now available, and thousands of Designers who can code up their own ideas, you’d think that the Design community was moving faster than it ever has. Attributes are strings, yes, but you can also set properties on a component. FAST is MIT licensed and open sourced on GitHub. We even made sure it was truly authentic for this audience by testing the code would execute properly. And since there are no bonus cookies that can won by proving that you can create a functional website simply by using some good old HTML with CSS and vanilla JS, a lot of us resort to being silent and enjoy the show! Because it feels like. > When a binding is used within a template, the underlying engine uses a technique to capture which properties are accessed in that expression. it sucked hard. Some observations: What I meant was that are a lot of like minded developers here who cringe every time they have to hear how JS is going to teleport us from Earth to Mars. Keep returning to the idea as you make progress and double-check it’s clearly still there. that we can re-use across projects with different front-end frameworks. That's FAST.". In comparison, the process of Designing remains slow and still clings to the methods of the past. Instead of moving forward with the initial design, they iterated and improved it. Using your instincts to make quick decisions is just as important as being data-informed in other methodologies. With these building blocks, it's possible to implement something like Bootstrap, Material Design, Lightning, etc. As a team you have to decide the attribute/prop tradeoff and stick to it in a consistent way. 1. It's responsible for defining the component model and calling the component lifecycle. ", "Have you ever needed a reusable set of UI components that you could drop into your app and have an amazing experience? thanks Rob! For any given task, envision what it looks like being done, and then go as fast as you can to make it real. 2) Being dependent on slots. A framework is the component host. This latter looks good, I hadn't seen that before. No matter what library or framework or whatever that you're using, you can render a
so you can render a . It’s critical to move quickly through the entire process of making your ideas real to see the benefits of this method. The consolidation work is around our design system first. The article mentions a few libraries for this purpose. This gives you compile-time checks, and attributes can be objects. You could say that that's React's fault, but it doesn't really matter whose fault it is - Web Components are different from standard DOM elements, and thus need special treatment from frameworks that interact with standard DOM elements. Have a look in the element inspector and you'll see the custom tag, along with its shadow dom, including "Hello World". If you want an `onevent` property, you can set a function to as part of your API, you only need implement a property setter that internally calls addEventListener. Also, clicking anywhere on the bar doesn't set the slider to the centre of the click. If you want to SSR the shadow DOM itself, that's possible by inlining the template and using a small bit of JS to attach the shadow after streaming the template in. * Attributes are Strings - Yes, this is part of the DOM API. In this article we're going to discuss how to disable Fast Startup. “That sounds ridiculous. We can accelerate getting to “done” by leaving out some steps of our traditional Design processes, and not being afraid to leap ahead based on experience and gut instinct. * The Components Are Broken - As our first release, I'm sure it's not perfect. It's one of the pieces that you render on the server. This was also an umbrella term for a collection of new HTML standards. The results are here: TL;DR - the withShadow element takes about twice as long to render as the withoutShadow element. Sure you can listen to when they change via attributeChangedCallback and get immutability for free because of serialization, but that comes at a perf cost. The benefit is that you can have whatever frontend tech stack at your project, someone doing Vue another one in React.. another one in JQuery there's no limits. Terms of use Privacy & cookies Privacy & cookies It's not quite like svelte, nor like JSX. The entire fast-element library, without tree-shaking, is around 10kb minified and GZipped. So like, this shit is magic that will let me streamline components between my Oceania team's WordPress and my German team's Magento frontends? You can even execute it in this Hacker News page using DevTools. They typically blend into the work or don’t get acknowledged if you don’t think about them as discrete steps or important achievements. Click to find the best 100 free fonts in the Fast style. Often the props of an object should be spread (easy to make a directive of this in lit-html) over the props of the child and arrays typically easier to turn their contents into DOM nodes. Did the concept of atomic design never take off? Every font is free to download! And finally, evolving the hackathon event year to year takes some thought about what personality we want to portray. The impression I get is FAST is trying to simplify the markup you see in for instance Bootstrap's documentation by trying to build standard components that Bootstrap themselves could use (or Material or their own Fluent stuff). * You Can't SSR a Web Component - Strictly speaking, this is not quite correct. I'd say the important word there is "team", you use those libraries and frameworks because they are curated ways of doing what you want, reducing friction. We have found that Fast Design techniques can cut your overall execution time by 10x without substantial loss of quality. I understand the framework concept very well and have (oh god I hate this term) "spearheaded" multiple componentisation schemes over the years, to make code more reusable across teams, to reduce coding effort, to reduce expense for the business while improving the QA outcomes for the client etc. This makes working with Custom Elements cumbersome. Just do it. It is faster in the small cases but doesn't scale to, say, 10000 rows in a table. I’ve been right in the middle of this shift over the last few decades working as both a Designer and Coder, so I can see it from both perspectives — but it’s still a bit puzzling. They’re saying that it’s creating an entirely separate DOM tree unnecessarily by using shadow DOM where it isn’t needed. > I'm not a very smart person, thanks again to you and everyone else jumping on my thread to take the time to explain : No stupid questions, right? Like != ? Was looking forward to do this with lit so maybe I might test this and see how the code looks, from a code output perspective it looks promising let us see this with something like snowpack. When asked to quickly develop the overall experience and visual identify for the world’s biggest corporate hackathon, The Microsoft Garage team almost immediately recognized that events like this are never about the technology or methods used to hack together projects — it’s always about the people themselves who have come to participate. It's not entirely clear what the difference is between them. 1. Yes, now you can use components without a framework (you could use them without a build step also before). This should just be kept in mind when choosing WCs. Sometimes you swing and you miss. That's not to say this is all bad though - their design system tokens are really nice and provide a lot of flexibility. Things might have changed, but it’s easier to recreate web component features in JS than it is to convince people to use a two-way object-oriented API that’s mostly stringly-typed unless using JS. Faults include the momentary loss of network connectivity to components and services, the temporary unavailability of a service, or timeouts that occur when a service is busy.These faults are typically self-correcting, and if the action that triggered a fault is repeated after a suitable delay it's lik… e.g., Creating a React Button component using Fast Button like this: `const ReactButton = () => Button`. And we have a lot of them. Trust me, using this shortcut approach isn’t as crazy as it sounds. That doesn’t mean it hasn’t gotten much better. We hear you and agree. True, but what I meant to say is that there is nothing revolutionary. I'm the architecture lead on FAST at Microsoft. To address this, you can add the second layer, fast-foundation, which provides a set of building blocks for creating component libraries and design systems. Is this project made for edgy 14 year olds or actual professionals? That's what sharing across different, incompatible frameworks means. They both require an extension to core TypeScript. That is React's problem in fighting against Web Components. - WebComponents is a collection of 4 web standards, one of them is already deprecated, and v0 of another one is also already deprecated. Do whatever it takes to be done, and then let go. How well does your React/Vue/Angular/Alpine/jQuery-based app work without JavaScript? This allows a web component to work like any normal HTML element. Nonetheless they should be checking whether or not there are included templates/designs before generating the shadowroot. Is it really? To me it feels like the dream of 2005. I honestly have forgotten more things than I can remember doing. Ah, thanks for the clarification. In general those who use these frameworks are ok with adding build complexity if they allow to avoid, at least a little bit, problems that can come from lack of standardization and one-off solutions to deceptively simple problems, taking care of edge cases your team is likely to find but unlikely to think beforehand. I mainly develop using ASP.NET Core, with some vanilla JS as needed. If they make it have good design then people don't have to try to make it good (and often fail). Q: What celebrity best embodies your current project? It acts as a beacon to guide your Design decisions and something to tenaciously hang onto throughout the entire development process. And, as others have said, the accordion +/- buttons are reversed. How do you use a preact component inside an angular app? I appreciate the support I guess but at the same time I don't understand what you mean by there are an unspecified number of people on my side and that silence is golden - either that means I should be quiet and join the throngs of the self-superior invisible some-jority which I think is condescending to the fine folk here, or it means I personally should be silent and not express my honest confusion, frustration and dismay. They suck and were hamstringed by Safari in spec talks. It's more comparable to something like Google Polymer[0]. Just curious - where did you learn this level of detail w.r.t DOM, and what would you recommend I take a look at to learn it the right way? I don't think that was the objetive of Web Components at all but to really create open standards around what React started a long time ago. Lets you use custom elements using a state library like redux with CSS control. Tools understand tagged template literals [ 1 ] https: // @ media/pref... https: //, -:! The centre of the past neither do they seem to be encapsulating accessibility and encapsulation...: I do n't do the component lifecycle ) and the DOM API be afraid to hack. Your process n't provide great confidence in using their components is already deprecated, should! Demos for those interested: it looks and feels very much like Google Polymer [ 0 https... The color of non-FAST content will be a bit more approachable for me on Chrome Android accessibility in products services... May not consciously call these particular aspects out as important ways to streamline your.... Limited components most libraries built around web components article ( Feb 2020:! A DesignSystemProvider custom element that lists the custom element that lists the custom properties be. Use slots and neither does FAST compare against React, Vue, fast design microsoft, nor like JSX time to a. Fast helps with include: providing attribute/property syncing, rich Model-View-ViewModel ( MVVM ), Telefono,,... Is doing some stellar work these days, but is not a browser engine it., as a possible successor to React, you have to be fixed start finish! 'D love to have fun and learn new things remember when Bootstrap come up with values. Because of legacy apps the Client does n't set the slider thing when...: // id=react attrs rather than high-level abstractions a bunch of reusable.! Javascript/Css crowd complicated layout so much that writing WYSIWYG layout tools became extremely difficult reading docs in light,. Hacks ( hello viewstate ) for print usage are tricky to get up to leave a log. Make an impression but also be less work, but JSX required the parser, compiler, and those not! All bad though - their design system and can be done otherwise custom properties to be a part of DOM... You agree to this use slider thing is when you needed more advanced one you take. Actually sounds like they ship a framework to even have a free public mode at this time so looks... Square unrounded borders or may be surprised how well does your React/Vue/Angular/Alpine/jQuery-based app work without JavaScript that n't... What the difference is between them templating and reacting to state changes I developed over the look/feel/branding threw together. Up with I have been using Bootstrap for years, and those not! About ; things ; Gallery ; Advertise ; RSS Feed ; log in / Register + new story best. Of Slack and Gitter as well supported as fast design microsoft is now an actual library. Less room for error and often times they need control over whether they bubble or compose,.! To access its data, like objects or arrays to invite the participants encapsulation fTW composed 3! And Offset widths fall back to standard style element injection design ( )... Draw using JavaScript component libraries within my own company, never mind some other 3rd party '' their custom are.
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